Mining NiceHash

The BCN pump and ZEC

A couple weeks back I decided to look into investment opportunities on coins still using the original cryptonight algo. The thought being, all those X3s are mining something other than monero - so what?
My criteria were, cryptonight algo and traded on polo. The list was short, exactly one coin - Bytecoin. The diff had risen 8x over the past month and the price had not risen proportionally, this made the decision easy. Bought a not- insignificant quantity of them around 60 sats and expected to hold for a while until the expected price increase to move more inline with the diff.
Today, you probably heard what happened on binance with a 32x rise in price. This was "made possible" by no blocks being mined for at least two hours. This jogged my memory on something that happened a couple years back that I'd forgotten all about. This also caused me to reasses my stance on the Z3 and whether it is good or bad for ZCash.
Leading up to the latest bitcoin halving , I was researching SHA256 coins to speculate on. At the time, I figured a lot of the SHA ASICs would move off of bitcoin and into alts after the halving took place. At the time I was trading on both polo and trex, so I wanted coins on both platforms. There were about three coins I settled on as I remember - DGB, Myriad, and CURE. Bought some of each on both exchanges.
A similar scenario unfolded with CURE as happened with BCN today There was a massive, MASSIVE, pump of CURE on Polo but price was mostly unchanged on trex. Sold my CURE on polo and initiated a transfer from trex to polo to sell the remainder. After some time, there were zero confirmations showing on trex. WTF? Searched out a block explorer for CURE and low and behold the chain was not moving. After some time, the pump was over and the chain began moving again.
There was certainly a nefarious actor on the mining side that had stalled the chain. I'm no expert on the technicals of how, but winning shares were being withheld by someone with a significant portion of that network's hashrate. Maybe someone else can chime in with the details on how this type of attack is perpetrated. Incidentally, CURE was delisted from polo a very short time later. Whether this was due to polo calling BS, or being complicit and tipping off somebody prior to the delisting announcement to get one last hoorah, the world will never know.
I also remember some talk around that time of excessive orphans happening on slushpool. It apparently ended up being an unintentional issue wherein one of the larger farms pointed at slush was withholding winning shares. This sounded very similar to what happened with CURE, but with so much more hashrate on the BTC network, others were finding winning shares to keep the chain moving.
So, how is this relevant to ZEC?
I believe the BCN attack was made possible by, and initiated with, Antminer X3s. Somebody has a lot of them and pulled this off.
I believe the CURE attack was perpetrated by a major holder of SHA256 ASICs. The CURE nethash was a drop in the bucket compared to bitcoin so it was probably a simple matter of pulling off BTC for a couple hours, attacking CURE, then returning to BTC (or whatever else they were moving at the time).
Not going to speculate on who waged these attacks, it's irrelevant. The important, common, factor is ASIC miners. I fear that the ZEC network will be vulnerable to this type of attack should action not be taken to resist ASICs. All it would take is two hours to completely trash it's reputation and the effort invested in getting it to where it is today.
Before you call me a GPU shill or ASIC fudder, consider that these things have actually happened and do your own research to refute the points being made. In either case, thank you for taking the time to read what I've written and I look forward to your feedback.
submitted by dunnmines to zec [link] [comments]

Transcript of Open Developer Meeting In Discord - 5/10/2019

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
Channel should be open now
Chill05/10/2019
you all rock!
just getting that out of the way :wink:
Tron05/10/2019
Cheers everyone.
theking05/10/2019
Hi fabulous dev team!
Hans_Schmidt05/10/2019
Howdy!
Tron05/10/2019
No specific agenda today.
Questions?
Has everyone seen Zelcore wallet, and Spend app?
theDopeMedic05/10/2019
Any major development status updates that haven't been listed in #news?
Synicide05/10/2019
How was the meetup yesterday? I heard it would be recorded, it is uploaded anywhere yet?
Tron05/10/2019
And Trezor support on Mango Farm assets?
@Synicide Yes it was recorded. The Bitcoin meetup organizer has the video.
I talked about Ravencoin, but mostly about the stuff that was being built on/with/for Ravencoin.
There was about 70% overlap with folks who were at the Ravencoin meetup in March.
Synicide05/10/2019
awesome, looking forward to watching it when it's available
Tron05/10/2019
I'll hit up James and see if he's posting the video.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
@theDopeMedic I'd follow github if youre interested in development status
Synicide05/10/2019
zelcore looks super slick. Been meaning to research its security more with the username/pw being stored on device
Chill05/10/2019
How is the progress on the restricted assets and testnet coming along? A secondary question would be about the approximate fork timeframe.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
Has anyone heard from the community dev (BW) working on Dividends?
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
Any word on BW and his progress w dividends?
@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org LOL
Tron05/10/2019
@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org Great question. I haven't heard.
Synicide05/10/2019
last meeting BlondFrogs said he would try to connect with BW as he was sick with the flu at the time. Maybe he has an update
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
I've tried to get in contact, but with no success.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
Got a funny feeling...
Jeroz05/10/2019
Last time we left off with someone mentioning a foundation and Tron saying let’s discuss that next time iirc
kryptoshi05/10/2019
Has anyone taken a look at the merits for this proposal? Thoughts? https://medium.com/systems-nexus/modified-x16r-algorithm-proposal-for-constant-hash-rate-in-short-time-164711dd9044
Medium
Modified X16R algorithm proposal for constant hash rate in short time
Interpretation Lens V. a0.01
Tron05/10/2019
I did see it. Does anyone think this is a problem?
Synicide05/10/2019
It looks interesting... but I'm not sure what it is trying to solve. Looking at netstats, our 1 hour average block time is perfectly 1 minute
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
Last I heard from him he expressed how important finishing the code was. I wouldnt jump to conclusions on his absence within the community.
Synicide05/10/2019
x16r by nature will fluctuate, but DGW seems to be doing a good job keeping consistent block times
Tron05/10/2019
Because of relatively broad distribution across the algorithms, the block times are fairly consistent. It is possible, but very, very unlikely to get a sequence that takes up to 4x longer, but that's super rare, and only 4 minutes.
We did some timing analysis of the algorithms early on. A few are 1/2 as long as SHA-256 and some are up to 4x longer. But when you randomly select 16 it usually comes out about even.
Synicide05/10/2019
1hr avg: 1.02min - 24hr avg: 1min
I think we should focus on building, and not trying to fix what isnt necessarily broken
Tron05/10/2019
Agreed.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
Agreed
Tron05/10/2019
Is everyone ok with the frequency (every other week) of this discussion?
Jeroz05/10/2019
(Added thumbs down to measure)
Tron05/10/2019
@Jeroz Did you do thumbs-up and thumbs down?
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
Seems appropriate. Its not like the devs dont poke around here and chat anyways.
Tron05/10/2019
Anything critical that we should be aware of?
Jeroz05/10/2019
When I need a dev, I poke a dev. When that dev is unavailable. I poke another one :smiley:
Hans_Schmidt05/10/2019
BlondFrogs was testing some github code last month to create a dividends snapshot database of asset holders at a given blockheight. Is that planned for inclusion? That's the only thing needed for dividends.
Jeroz05/10/2019
I hope I didn’t offend any devs
With poking around
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
Was thinking voting would be an excellent use case for restricted assets. Local communities, nations, etc... could kyc their residents
radiodub05/10/2019
Is x16r will remain fpga mineable
Tron05/10/2019
@Jeroz We're hard to offend.
Chill05/10/2019
Is the general dev feeling that the next fork should and will include everything needed for the next 6-9 months (barring something completely unforeseen)?
Jeroz05/10/2019
I know :smile:
Tron05/10/2019
@radiodub Nearly impossible to stop FPGAs and still keep GPUs
Jeroz05/10/2019
About that: voting is another hard fork right? Not too soon?
Tron05/10/2019
FPGAs can be reprogrammed as fast. It is silicon (true ASIC) that we can obsolete with a tiny change.
@Jeroz Messaging, voting, Tags, Restricted Assets would require a hard fork (upgrade).
We could do them each individually, but folks get weary of upgrades, so current plan is to roll them together into one.
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Good idea
Jeroz05/10/2019
Oh voting too?
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
People will like that
Jeroz05/10/2019
I thought that was coming later
Tron05/10/2019
Voting is the one that isn't being worked on now. Tags and Restricted assets have taken precedence.
Jeroz05/10/2019
I know. But you plan on waiting to fork until voting is also done?
That would have my preference tbh
But I can see an issue with too many things at the same time
Tron05/10/2019
If someone wants to step in, we've had one of our devs sidelined and he was working on BlockBook support so more light wallets can connect to Ravencoin. Mostly test cases needed at this point.
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
Thats a pretty large upgrade.. Bigger surface for unknowns
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
At what point would RVN community consider moving to ASICs because having a Bitcoin level of security would eventually be needed?
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Never rikki
Tron05/10/2019
@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org 100% Lots of testing on testnet and bounties.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
I am here :smiley:
Tron05/10/2019
@Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor There's nothing inherently wrong with ASICs but it tends to centralize to data centers and less opportunity for anyone to just run their gaming rig overnight and collect RVN.
Welcome Blondfrogs
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Asics are too expensive. If we want normal people to mine, then we cant be an asic network
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
@Tron True but what happens when the chain needs a Bitcoin level of protection?
Tron05/10/2019
More GPUs, more FPGAs
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Nvidia loves ravencoin :stuck_out_tongue:
Chill05/10/2019
ok, so we are pro FPGAs
𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕯𝖔𝖓 𝕳𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔 CEO ∞05/10/2019
Build it and they will come
Tron05/10/2019
It's all relative. It is cost to attack. If an ASIC isn't available for rent, then only option is rental of non-allocated GPUs
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
@Chill Eventually everyone will need FPGAs to be profitable on RVN, at that point I don't see why we just don't make the switch to ASICs
Tron05/10/2019
Also, as much as we don't focus on price, the price does matter because it determines the amount of electricity and hardware will be deployed to get the block reward. Price increase means more security, more mining means more security means higher price.
It's a circle.
Chill05/10/2019
someone tell that to the twitter handler
HailKira05/10/2019
you guys adding seedphrase to desktop wallet?
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
@HailKira We will, just is not a high priority right now.
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Twitter handle wants rvn ded
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
I just don't see much difference between ASIC and FPGA and I'd rather have the added nethash an ASIC will provide once GPUs are virtually kicked off the network
kryptoshi05/10/2019
I'm at 11 GB future proof
Tron05/10/2019
That also limits miners to big money, not gaming rigs.
Synicide05/10/2019
@Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor you have to keep in mind the 'added nethash' is all relative
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
FPGAs will limit miners to big $$$ too IMO
Tron05/10/2019
@kryptoshi New algo x16r-12G requires 12GB :frowning:
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
But sperating smaller gb cards would lead to less adoption if we ever become a mainstream coin.
Adpotion of mining that is
Chill05/10/2019
but we are a mainstream coin
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
Mains stream as in what eth did
Tron05/10/2019
@Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor I agree. Not a perfect solution.
Steelers05/10/2019
Is this a Dev meeting or Algo meeting :smiley:
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
But if we ever go mem lane. We should aim for 6 or 8gb.
Tron05/10/2019
Open to other questions.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
@Tron Probably not the time and the place to have this discussion as we stand currently but IMO we're gonna have this conversation for real eventually
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
Most cards have 6gb now.
kryptoshi05/10/2019
Why 12 gb ? Such a massive jump
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
^
Would also like to know
Tron05/10/2019
@kryptoshi I was joking. You said you had 11GB card.
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
Haha
You got em good
I cant imaghine the face he had when he was 1gb short
Lel
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
That's what she said
kryptoshi05/10/2019
Hahaha
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
need a 2080ti
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
How much does the VII have?
16?
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
Any other questions you have for us?
Hans_Schmidt05/10/2019
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs You were testing some github code last month to create a dividends snapshot database of asset holders at a given blockheight. Is that planned for inclusion? That's the only thing needed for dividends.
Chill05/10/2019
a dev might want to contact Crypto Chico for some 'splaining
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
I still haven't contacted the developer that was working on dividends. Was pretty busy with some other stuff. I will contact him this next week, and see where we are at for that.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
Chico doesn't do interviews, shame. Tron would be a much needed interview for his community
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
As far as releasing dividends, I can be released at anytime the code is finished and doesn't require any voting or hardfork to occur
kryptoshi05/10/2019
Android asset aware wallet?
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
Is in beta right
Tron05/10/2019
Testing went well today on Android. Nearing release.
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
as it is a mechanism that is wallet specific
liqdmetal05/10/2019
no protocol level dividends you guys are saying?
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
correct
Tron05/10/2019
DM me if you want to test Android with Asset support. I'll send you the .APK.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
RVN gonna be on tZero wallet? :yum:
liqdmetal05/10/2019
why not? what is the logic on non-protocol dividends
assets + protocol dividends is nirvana
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
dividends is pretty much sending payments to addresses. Right now, you would have to do this manually. The dividends code, will allow this to be done quicker and easier.
No consensus changes are required.
Tron05/10/2019
New Android wallet is BIP44 and original Android wallet is BIP32/BIP39 so the words will not find the funds. You'll need to send them to another wallet, and then send them to new BIP44 derived address.
liqdmetal05/10/2019
we already have payments to addresses
so dividends is not a feature so much as simple wallet script
Hans_Schmidt05/10/2019
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs The dividend code changes look risky'er to me than messaging. Would you consider "tags" branch test-ready?
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
Not yet @Hans_Schmidt
Dividends is easier then you would think if coded correctly. I still haven't seen the code from the community developer. Excited to view it though.
Hans_Schmidt05/10/2019
@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs Sorry- I meant restricted, not dividend
kryptoshi05/10/2019
@Tron on the Android wallet, anyone successfully added their own node and got it to sync faster? Always have issues. I have a supped up node and cannot get it to work with the Android wallet...
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
@Hans_Schmidt Oh, that makes more sense. Yes, they are very risky! That is why we are going to create a new bug bounty program for restricted assets testing.
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
Once the network does get flooded w FPGAs, should we even consider changing the algo a couple times a year? That would only give bitstream developers added time to hoard their creations for themselves
Kind of like they're already doing with their x16r bitstreams :yum:
kryptoshi05/10/2019
Flooded... lol... like that hardware has mass production scale like gpus...come on dude
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Bip44 wallet? :smiley:
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
@kryptoshi Eventually yes, where there's $$$ to be made, people make things happen
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
So can we trade from that in the new Binance Dex when RVN get listed?
kryptoshi05/10/2019
@Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor Yes Soon TM lol. :soontm:
Tron05/10/2019
@kryptoshi There are some things we can do to speed it up. For a new wallet, it shouldn't need to sync. For recovered wallet, it needs to sync from beginning of BIP44 wallet support on iOS so words can be moved between the two.
Other options include grabbing the first derived address and looking it up on an explorer to see when it was first used and sync from there.
Another option is to add an optional number with the 12 words so it knows when to start syncing.
There isn't a good reason on an SPV wallet to sync before the seed was created.
kryptoshi05/10/2019
Cool. Glad you are looking at speedup options.. :right_facing_fist: :left_facing_fist:
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
@MrFanelli™ If the binance dex support RVN deposits. I am sure you would be able to send from it
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Has binance reached out for any info or anything?
I seen that we ranked in some voting competition they had on twitter
for an ama
Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor05/10/2019
I believe we'll need to create a fund of approximately $300,000 in order to get a BNB-RVN asset created and listed on the Binance FDEX
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
In order to work with binance we need Ravencoin integrated into Blockbook.
Tron05/10/2019
@MrFanelli™ I've reached back out to Binance on the AMA.
MrFanelli™05/10/2019
Awesome :smile:
kryptoshi05/10/2019
@Tron you are a natural on the interviews... cool as a cucumber. :sunglasses:
Tron05/10/2019
Thanks @kryptoshi
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
Cool. We are done for today.
Please don't ask us any more questions :smiley:
Tron05/10/2019
Thanks everyone!!!!
[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs05/10/2019
Cya everyone!!
S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org05/10/2019
Cya happy feet, Thanks
Thanks Tron
Seal <:cricat:> Clubber05/10/2019
:bepbep:
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